[Paven Kaur]

Hi Emma,

We are having a run of 530-6am wake ups for over a week. Yesterday Rohan slept 12-230. I woke up him at 230. He was tired in the second half of the morning with crankiness, clinginess, falling over and few tantrums. He was better in the afternoon but still a bit off and by 650pm was rubbing his eyes. He was asleep 35 minutes later and woken up 535am crying. He is learning at least one new word a day. How do I break out of this cycle? Before then I was doing the nap later at 1230 but the nap got shorter and shorter and he was waking crying so I moved it earlier and letting him sleep longer but still waking at 530 although I only did this yesterday. I really can’t believe we are still having trouble going to one nap all these months later and usually because he seems overtired! But if I put him down earlier than 7 in the evening he can takes ages to sleep sometimes eg I put him down at 630 the other day as he only slept 1 hour 10 for the nap which started at 1215 and took him 75 minutes to sleep but he cried at the beginning for 20 minutes then babbled then screamed at the end until falling asleep so fell asleep at 740 and woke up 550am. Is circadian rhythm more important now than wake windows? Is 2 hours 30 nap too long? I was thinking of trying nap at 12-230 max then bed at 7 consistently for a week even if he wakes up early and seeing what happens?

[Paven Kaur]

Hi Emma,

We are now teething second set of molars which seems to be making Rohan even more tired! Can I check when you say nap at 12, do you mean lay down in cot at 12 or aim asleep at 12?

Can I also ask what your generic recommendation is for a child of 22 months with sleep schedule? There seems to be a lot of information out there not to go over 5 hours in the second wake window and have a longer first one but I have not found that works either?

Best wishes

Pav

[Paven Kaur]

Hi Emma,

Thanks for the reply. I appreciate your time. We have had issues with long latency for weeks if not months (at bedtime). Figuring out whether it is under or overtired has been a problem as Rohan is mostly not upset during the time he is trying to sleep but recently I have felt it is overtiredness as he is not himself on waking and night sleep is shrinking. So I decreased the second wake window to 5 hours 15 3 days ago and his mood is significantly better and waking happier with longer night sleep. Latency has dropped from 70 to 55 to 45 minutes over that 3 days. Yesterday was a weird nap at 1 hour 25 ish and 35 minutes to fall asleep but he was happy in the afternoon so I kept the same wake window. I moved back to wake windows over the clock as I could not figure out where the problem was in his schedule and I find he is very sensitive to small changes. With clock based I found the morning wake window was variable and if he goes over 5 hours (max 5 hours 15) then he has a grumpy afternoon. I am thinking of carrying this on for a few more days then tweaking eg if latency at night stays 45 minutes but his mood is happy then I could add 15 minutes to the second wake window. I will try this first then get back to you. Best wishes, Pav

[Paven Kaur]

Hi Emma, not sure if this is useful information. I decreased the second wake window by 30 minutes to 5 hours 15 and he took 70 minutes to fall asleep. He was trying to sleep – I could see he is sucking on his sleep sack as usual and changing position, by 50 minutes he started crying so i went in and gave him a cuddle for a few minutes as crying is very unusual for him. He was yawning when I hugged him. I put him back down and he fell asleep soon after. I feel like he is overtired but I don’t know why the latency went up with me dropping the wake window. Hoping you can help, Pav

[Paven Kaur]

Hi Emma,

I hope you are keeping well. I am wondering if you can help us as I think we have ended up in an overtired cycle. Rohan has been sick back to back then vaccines then travelling and now having a huge developmental leap saying new words every day, walking up and down steps independently etc.

I found the clock based sometimes pushed his morning too long so he would be grumpy in the afternoon so I have kept the morning wake window at 5 hours no matter the time he wakes up. He falls asleep within 5-20 minutes always and has a two hours nap reliably. I still wake him up after 2 hours of actual sleep. The morning seems to work but he was taking ages to fall asleep at night so I started extending the second wake window as he didn’t seem tired so it is now 5 hours 45 (time I put him down in the cot) and he would sleep in 20 minutes but over the last 1-1.5 weeks of doing this he is showing signs of overtiredness building and his night sleep has reduced to about 10 hours and now back to taking 45 minutes to fall asleep but it is different, he isn’t playing, he is trying to sleep but can’t. He is sleeping through the night once asleep but grumpy from the minute he wakes him, frustrated easily, clingy, falling over, not eating well, whining, yawning, rubbing eyes, zoning out, not wanting to play or walk around etc. His nanny and dad have both commented that he isn’t ok in the mornings. He seems fine in the afternoon after he has his nap (like a different baby) and doesn’t seem tired when we put him down so are confused. I am starting to think he is showing that “tired but wired” behaviour at night. I think he is so sensitive to change that wake windows work better and I am thinking the second one needs cutting down but I am not sure to what? Any advice would be appreciated as the last few days have been a mess for us!

Best wishes, Pav

[Paven Kaur]

PS are you wondering if the long time to fall asleep at bedtime is from a little overtiredness?

[Paven Kaur]

Hi Emma,

Since moving bedtime to 715pm, the afternoon crankiness has gone as have the overnight wakes. Those were happening when I did 730pm bedtime then he caught up on sleep with a couple of 7pm bedtimes. Today he woke up at 655am and I put him down for his nap at 1150. He wasn’t asleep until 1210-1215. He has been cranky yesterday morning and this morning but I think it is because he is so hungry as when he eats loads then he is fine. I have also been putting him down for the nap a bit earlier eg 1145-1150 and found that helped whereas before I was doing 1155 so he wasn’t getting 2 hours of actual sleep so I have been trying to get 2 hours of actual sleep.

If I did an 1130 nap time and he woke up early from the nap, what time would I do bedtime as sometimes he only sleeps 1.5 hours?

Best wishes, Pav

[Paven Kaur]

Thanks Emma. That makes sense. I have just emailed the last week of information and would appreciate your advice as still having issues although things are definitely better. He has always been quite sensitive to sleep changes. Thanks again.

Best wishes, Pav

[Paven Kaur]

I went in and soothed him then put him back down after 10 minutes of holding and he has stayed asleep for over an hour and a half.

[Paven Kaur]

Hi Emma,

Can I check what to do if Rohan wakes early in the morning eg today he was woken up at 615am. I picked him up at 630am. I offered him his nap at 1145, he was asleep very quickly. He had been yawning multiple times in the morning. He has woken up crying after 36 minutes. Yesterday he had a 1.5 hour nap so did a 7pm bedtime and he fell asleep at 8pm so just slept over 10 hours overnight. Should I offer an earlier nap on these days and let him nap longer?

Best wishes

Pav

[Paven Kaur]

1. Please ignore my question regarding 730 bedtime…it is clearly too late for him. He was overtired all of yesterday and woke crying from his nap after 1.5 hours and crying in the night at 1130pm on off until falling asleep about an hour later despite a 7pm bedtime. I’ll stick to an earlier bedtime. Thank you, Pav

[Paven Kaur]

Sorry I also meant to ask on days he wakes up earlier in the morning, should I put him down for his nap slightly earlier?

Best wishes

Pav

[Paven Kaur]

Thanks Emma. On the 7th he did end up waking up naturally at 655am. Then a 2 hour nap (I woke him up) then I put him down for bed at 730pm, he was asleep 18 minutes later and I had to wake him at 7am but he seemed a little off all morning.

It sounds like you are thinking 730pm bedtime is slightly too late?

Thanks again,

Pav

[Paven Kaur]

Hi Emma,

Hope you are well. Just a little update. On the 6th, Ro took a 2 hour nap so I made bedtime 730pm and he fell asleep 815pm then woke up at 635am. He seemed tired before 12 as yawning about 20 minutes before then but we were out. I put him in the cot late at 12 and he slept 1.5 hours then by 630pm was a mess. He having tantrums over nothing and hysterical, wouldn’t stop crying and wouldn’t eat so I put him to bed around 710 and he was asleep about 20 minutes. He cried 5 minutes around 1130pm. He is still asleep now and it is 650am.

He is overtired in my opinion. Any advice would be great. His receptive language has much improved over recent weeks with him following instructions more and able to point at things eg the fridge or where q is on the keyboard. Occasionally he sounds like he is saying words eg bus, car but very occasionally.

Best wishes,

Pav

[Paven Kaur]

Thanks Emma. I have just emailed you the last week.

Best wishes, Pav