[Paven Kaur]

Thanks Emma. Can I check what to do if he has a nap shorter than an hour. Yesterday his actual sleep time for his nap was 40 minutes then he woke crying. Once I picked him up he was happy and energetic. I put him down at 7pm so it was a massive wake window but he was happy. He was asleep 15 minutes later and slept through til 630am. Is this the right thing to do – to stick with a 7-730pm bedtime range no matter wake time (even with such a short nap) unless clearly tired? The night before this happened was the first time I tried 730pm bedtime. I am not sure he needs a later bedtime now he is waking earlier so I will stick with 715 for the moment. His mood is MUCH better now. He is also started to say words so may be related to development. Best wishes, Pav

[Paven Kaur]

Thanks Emma. I will try that.

We moved to a new place few weeks ago and the lights are much brighter. It had crossed my mind that it is very bright until he is in his cot (he is still sleeping in his travel cot with the slumberpod so I know he is in complete darkness in the night). Yesterday he napped 1.5 hours but I stuck with 715pm, which was a 5 hr 45 minute wake window. He was asleep at 745 and slept through the night. He woke naturally for the first time at 650am this morning! I will start putting him down at 730pm and turning some lights off towards the last hour.

Thank you again. Things are better than before your help. I will update you in a few days.

Best wishes,

Pav

[Paven Kaur]

Hi Emma,

Thank you and I will do that. He has taken a 2 hour nap every day since starting the schedule except the 2nd day. I wake him up at 2. Last 2 days I have put him down at 715pm. 2 days ago he was asleep at 8 (he cried few minutes at the end) and yesterday 745ish.(He woke crying for a few minutes at 10pm then went back to sleep for the night). I have had to wake him up at 7am, he isn’t waking naturally. He is quite grumpy in the day. This morning he is grumpy and clingy from waking up. Yesterday afternoon he was quite grumpy except the first hour.

Questions:

1. Is this grumpiness expected (he is getting frustrated easily, have little tantrums, clingy, fussy – he isn’t normally like this and I assume it is as he is tired from the bigger wake windows) and will get better with time as he adjusts? It is manageable at the moment by going outside or changing activity. It comes and goes, isn’t constant.

2. If he is grumpy in the afternoon, should I put him down earlier eg 7pm or try to hold out for 715 if able?

Best wishes

Pav

[Paven Kaur]

He seems a touch cranky this morning and fell asleep for his nap quickly so he must be tired suggesting to me I should pull back to your advised time of 715pm and wait a week. I have made a mental decision to change nothing for one week as I am likely prolonging the process. Best wishes, Pav

[Paven Kaur]

Thanks Emma. On the day I put Ro down at 645pm and he didn’t sleep til 750, he was awake an hour in the night also just lying there. Next morning I woke him up at 7, he took him nap 12-2 then I woke him up and I put him down at 730 as he didn’t seem tired and he was also falling asleep 745-750pm the two days before. He was asleep 30 minutes later and didn’t wake in the night. I woke him up at 7am then did the same yesterday and he fell asleep 45 minutes later at 815pm. I woke him up at 7 this morning. Is putting him down at 730pm ok or should I go back to 715pm – happy to do whichever you feel best. His bed time tantrums have reduced too…I think he was saying I’m not tired yet!

Best wishes, Pav

[Paven Kaur]

Hi Emma, sorry to bug you again but I had another question. As I mentioned Rohan was cranky in the morning then he had a 1 hr 10 nap but he was perfectly happy all afternoon, full of energy and no tantrums. As he had a short nap, I put him down at 645pm but he didn’t seem tired. He fell asleep at 750pm (day before he fell asleep at 745pm). He just babbled and rolled around. Do I only need to give an early bedtime if he seems tired, otherwise aim for 715? And did you mean put down in cot between 7 and 730pm or aim for sleep at that time (I took it as aim for sleep hence I put him down at 645 plus I was worried it was ages for him to be awake) but maybe his circadian rhythm doesn’t want to sleep until 730ish no matter the time he woke up as long as before 2pm?

Best wishes
Pav

[Paven Kaur]

Hi Emma,

Sorry to write back to soon but just wanted to check what we are seeing is expected and whether to carry on as planned. Yesterday Ro took a 2 hour nap which we woke him up for and then bed at 715, he was fast asleep 30 minutes later with little fussing then woke up 630. He has been clingy most of the wake window and low energy, he had a few tantrums too which is unusual, he fell asleep for his nap very quickly within minutes and slept 1 hr 10 and didn’t go back to sleep after 15-20 minutes. He hasn’t woken crying when he woke up from the nap but this morning already seemed very tired. Just wanted to check your thoughts if we should expect this tiredness as it is a big change from the previous wake windows.

Best wishes, Pav

[Paven Kaur]

Thanks Emma. I’m willing to give it a go. Would I put him down at 715pm no matter how long the nap is, as in it is a clock based schedule rather than wake windows? The nap is shorter than 1.5 hours for the last 3 days but he is happy and energetic afterwards. Previously he was overtired when I tried similar schedule but maybe it was too close to moving 10 time zones. Happy to try again now and let you know in a week. Thanks for having a look at the data for me. : )

[Paven Kaur]

PPS – during the time he is falling asleep at night, he is not upset (except last 2 nights where he got upset during the latter end of the sleep routine as I mentioned then cried in his cot for a few minutes then stopped). Otherwise he is just lying there, rolling around, sometimes babbling, sometimes whispering but mostly doing nothing.

[Paven Kaur]

Sorry Emma I am not sure if this is helpful but I thought I would mention he is really fighting the end of bedtime routine recently which he has not done previously in that he tries to run away or escape his sleep sack at the end of the bedtime routine when I put him in his sleep sack and sing his lullaby. He has also cried when I put him in his sleep sack last 2 days, he was fine until I put him in it. I also am not sure if he is sometimes tired in the morning wake window as he been up in the night or due to the long latency? He does not seem tired when I put him down at night but he has always been like that.

Hoping you can help me as I am stuck!

Best wishes

Pav

[Paven Kaur]

Hi Emma,

Sorry for the delayed reply, I have been trying to fix the problem myself but nothing I do is working. I have been using the Cara Babies model of 5-6 hours before nap then 4-5 hours after nap, also as Rohan seems overtired when the afternoon wake window is pushed. He is taking ages to fall asleep and sometimes having split nights which has led me to letting him sleep past 7 (although I am starting to think this isn’t helping). His crankiness has reduced since dropping the second wake window to 4 hours but his latency remains. During the split nights, he has a brief few second cry at the start then just lies there with his eyes open, last night he clapped a little and babbled a few seconds but mostly lay there (for the parts I saw). His comprehension is much improved and he has learnt new motor skills in the last few weeks eg walking backwards, turning on the spot, using utensils much better. I have made a table of the last couple of weeks and am hoping you can make sense of it for me! I wasn’t able to paste it in here so I have emailed it to your admin – hope that is ok?

Best wishes,

Pav

[Paven Kaur]

Hi Emma,

Hope you are well. It is still taking ages for Ro to fall asleep at bedtime ...45-70 minutes, he just lies there babbling. I tried moving the nap to 12pm but that doesn't help as he still can't handle a long second wake window actually awake, it results in him being overtired the next morning. He takes the nap fine no matter where it is between 12-1230. To me it seems the second wake window is the issue - what should this wake window be? I read on your site that first wake window for this age should be 5-6 hours and second 4-5hours so first one longer? Could he be experiencing the 18 month regression? Or can it take longer for sleep at this age? Even when I put him down at 745, he won't sleep for a 30+ minutes but then a mess the next morning eg yesterday he was overtired and hysterical by 4 hrs 50. I am not sure what to do.

Best wishes, Pav

[Paven Kaur]

Hi Emma, hope you have had a good Xmas. Rohan is a little unwell at the moment so sleeping as needed. I have found the 1230 time for the nap is working for him and he is fast asleep the whole time. Do you feel 12 is a better time?

I have also noticed that no matter the second wake window length, he always falls asleep 745-8pm like clock work. When I tried extending the second wake window to 5 hours, he was over tired but still falling asleep at the same time. When I made it 4 hours, he was undertired. Anything in between seems ok but sleep is at the same time every day pretty much.

I’m waking him in the morning at 7am and from his nap also after 2 hours. I’m not sure if I should let him nap longer and try to line up bedtime with the time he wants to sleep. Maybe that his preferred circadian rhythm time or if this will become earlier with time. He has rarely had a bedtime before 730 in the past.

Best wishes,

Pav

[Paven Kaur]

In the UK I would never let him sleep past 7 unless he was sick and his bedtime was 730-8pm if that helps.

[Paven Kaur]

Hi Emma, I hope you are keeping well. I was hoping to get your advice. Rohan will be 18 months in 3 days! We moved to Brisbane 21 days ago and survived the flight and jet lag. He actually did really well and has completely switched over the Australia time. Before the move, I ended up giving him a 10 minute micronap in the mornings then a long nap at 1230 as we kept getting into an overtired circle with the 2 to 1 nap transition. In the last 8 days I have finally bitten the bullet and committed to one nap completely but am having trouble with bed time. It is taking Ro a long time to fall asleep at bed no matter what I do with the second wake window. It can be up to 70 minutes where he is babbling and rolling around then might get upset in the last few minutes and fall asleep. I have tried anything from 4 hours to 5 hours for the second wake window and it has stayed the same. Couple of days ago he was awake for 1.5 hours in the night at 1230am mostly just babbling with a little crying. When I checked on him he just wanted to play and seemed wide awake. I have been waking him. up in the mornings. Initially 8 then 730 and now 715am with the nap set at 1230pm. Today was the first morning he had woken up on his own at 7am. I still gave the nap at 1230. Prior to today he has been falling asleep for the nap very quickly within 5 minutes. Today it was just over 15 minutes which is more normal for him. I have capped the nap at 2 hours of actual sleep. The last wake window remains a mystery to me but I don’t know if it is a reflection of the first wake window being too short and to wake him up at 7am. I find it hard to tell if he is over or under tired. The long time to fall asleep suggest under but then in the day he is rubbing his eyes and yawning alot, except this morning. It could all be adjustment too and circadian rhythm being off. I recall you previously suggesting 4.5-5 for the last wake window? is that correct? Any advice would be appreciated. Best wishes, Pav