Paven Kaur
Forum Replies Created
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Hi Emma, sorry to bug you again but I had another question. As I mentioned Rohan was cranky in the morning then he had a 1 hr 10 nap but he was perfectly happy all afternoon, full of energy and no tantrums. As he had a short nap, I put him down at 645pm but he didn’t seem tired. He fell asleep at 750pm (day before he fell asleep at 745pm). He just babbled and rolled around. Do I only need to give an early bedtime if he seems tired, otherwise aim for 715? And did you mean put down in cot between 7 and 730pm or aim for sleep at that time (I took it as aim for sleep hence I put him down at 645 plus I was worried it was ages for him to be awake) but maybe his circadian rhythm doesn’t want to sleep until 730ish no matter the time he woke up as long as before 2pm?
Best wishes
Pav -
Hi Emma,
Sorry to write back to soon but just wanted to check what we are seeing is expected and whether to carry on as planned. Yesterday Ro took a 2 hour nap which we woke him up for and then bed at 715, he was fast asleep 30 minutes later with little fussing then woke up 630. He has been clingy most of the wake window and low energy, he had a few tantrums too which is unusual, he fell asleep for his nap very quickly within minutes and slept 1 hr 10 and didn’t go back to sleep after 15-20 minutes. He hasn’t woken crying when he woke up from the nap but this morning already seemed very tired. Just wanted to check your thoughts if we should expect this tiredness as it is a big change from the previous wake windows.
Best wishes, Pav
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Thanks Emma. I’m willing to give it a go. Would I put him down at 715pm no matter how long the nap is, as in it is a clock based schedule rather than wake windows? The nap is shorter than 1.5 hours for the last 3 days but he is happy and energetic afterwards. Previously he was overtired when I tried similar schedule but maybe it was too close to moving 10 time zones. Happy to try again now and let you know in a week. Thanks for having a look at the data for me. : )
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PPS – during the time he is falling asleep at night, he is not upset (except last 2 nights where he got upset during the latter end of the sleep routine as I mentioned then cried in his cot for a few minutes then stopped). Otherwise he is just lying there, rolling around, sometimes babbling, sometimes whispering but mostly doing nothing.
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Sorry Emma I am not sure if this is helpful but I thought I would mention he is really fighting the end of bedtime routine recently which he has not done previously in that he tries to run away or escape his sleep sack at the end of the bedtime routine when I put him in his sleep sack and sing his lullaby. He has also cried when I put him in his sleep sack last 2 days, he was fine until I put him in it. I also am not sure if he is sometimes tired in the morning wake window as he been up in the night or due to the long latency? He does not seem tired when I put him down at night but he has always been like that.
Hoping you can help me as I am stuck!
Best wishes
Pav
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Hi Emma,
Sorry for the delayed reply, I have been trying to fix the problem myself but nothing I do is working. I have been using the Cara Babies model of 5-6 hours before nap then 4-5 hours after nap, also as Rohan seems overtired when the afternoon wake window is pushed. He is taking ages to fall asleep and sometimes having split nights which has led me to letting him sleep past 7 (although I am starting to think this isn’t helping). His crankiness has reduced since dropping the second wake window to 4 hours but his latency remains. During the split nights, he has a brief few second cry at the start then just lies there with his eyes open, last night he clapped a little and babbled a few seconds but mostly lay there (for the parts I saw). His comprehension is much improved and he has learnt new motor skills in the last few weeks eg walking backwards, turning on the spot, using utensils much better. I have made a table of the last couple of weeks and am hoping you can make sense of it for me! I wasn’t able to paste it in here so I have emailed it to your admin – hope that is ok?
Best wishes,
Pav
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Hi Emma,
Hope you are well. It is still taking ages for Ro to fall asleep at bedtime ...45-70 minutes, he just lies there babbling. I tried moving the nap to 12pm but that doesn't help as he still can't handle a long second wake window actually awake, it results in him being overtired the next morning. He takes the nap fine no matter where it is between 12-1230. To me it seems the second wake window is the issue - what should this wake window be? I read on your site that first wake window for this age should be 5-6 hours and second 4-5hours so first one longer? Could he be experiencing the 18 month regression? Or can it take longer for sleep at this age? Even when I put him down at 745, he won't sleep for a 30+ minutes but then a mess the next morning eg yesterday he was overtired and hysterical by 4 hrs 50. I am not sure what to do.
Best wishes, Pav
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Hi Emma, hope you have had a good Xmas. Rohan is a little unwell at the moment so sleeping as needed. I have found the 1230 time for the nap is working for him and he is fast asleep the whole time. Do you feel 12 is a better time?
I have also noticed that no matter the second wake window length, he always falls asleep 745-8pm like clock work. When I tried extending the second wake window to 5 hours, he was over tired but still falling asleep at the same time. When I made it 4 hours, he was undertired. Anything in between seems ok but sleep is at the same time every day pretty much.
I’m waking him in the morning at 7am and from his nap also after 2 hours. I’m not sure if I should let him nap longer and try to line up bedtime with the time he wants to sleep. Maybe that his preferred circadian rhythm time or if this will become earlier with time. He has rarely had a bedtime before 730 in the past.
Best wishes,
Pav
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In the UK I would never let him sleep past 7 unless he was sick and his bedtime was 730-8pm if that helps.
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Hi Emma, I hope you are keeping well. I was hoping to get your advice. Rohan will be 18 months in 3 days! We moved to Brisbane 21 days ago and survived the flight and jet lag. He actually did really well and has completely switched over the Australia time. Before the move, I ended up giving him a 10 minute micronap in the mornings then a long nap at 1230 as we kept getting into an overtired circle with the 2 to 1 nap transition. In the last 8 days I have finally bitten the bullet and committed to one nap completely but am having trouble with bed time. It is taking Ro a long time to fall asleep at bed no matter what I do with the second wake window. It can be up to 70 minutes where he is babbling and rolling around then might get upset in the last few minutes and fall asleep. I have tried anything from 4 hours to 5 hours for the second wake window and it has stayed the same. Couple of days ago he was awake for 1.5 hours in the night at 1230am mostly just babbling with a little crying. When I checked on him he just wanted to play and seemed wide awake. I have been waking him. up in the mornings. Initially 8 then 730 and now 715am with the nap set at 1230pm. Today was the first morning he had woken up on his own at 7am. I still gave the nap at 1230. Prior to today he has been falling asleep for the nap very quickly within 5 minutes. Today it was just over 15 minutes which is more normal for him. I have capped the nap at 2 hours of actual sleep. The last wake window remains a mystery to me but I don’t know if it is a reflection of the first wake window being too short and to wake him up at 7am. I find it hard to tell if he is over or under tired. The long time to fall asleep suggest under but then in the day he is rubbing his eyes and yawning alot, except this morning. It could all be adjustment too and circadian rhythm being off. I recall you previously suggesting 4.5-5 for the last wake window? is that correct? Any advice would be appreciated. Best wishes, Pav
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Hi Emma,
Thank you for your reply. I am glad that is what you have said as that is what I have done. I think I was so concerned about his being overtired that I am giving him an early bedtime when he doesn’t need it and has probably been ready for one nap for some time. My thoughts were if things didn’t settle with bigger wake windows that I could cap the nap at 2 hours although I would prefer not to as he is waking up so happy! The only night he has not woken up babbling was the day he took a 2 hour nap on his own rather than 2.5.
I will see how things go over the next week.
Many thanks,
Pav
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Thanks Emma, that is very helpful.
I am writing this at 3am UK time hoping you can help me! Rohan started taking 30-50 minutes to sleep for nap 2 and bedtime despite the first nap being called to 45 minutes. It worked for a couple of weeks initially. I tried longer wake windows and it didn’t help so I felt it was time to move to one nap. He is 15.5 months old. The first day I increased the first wake window by 30 minutes and he was still playing with no sleep signs. He slept 2.5 hours (i was surprised and anticipating he would need a second micronap) and I gave him a 6pm bedtime which was 5 hours of awake time. He took 18 minutes to fall asleep and cried a few minutes which is unusual for him. He was awake 430am -530am playing then he fell asleep again. I woke him up at 7am. I added another 15 minutes to wake time and he tolerated it fine again with no signs of being tired at 1045am. He fell asleep in 6 minutes and slept 2.5 hours until 120pm-ish. I gave him an early bedtime of 6pm. He didn’t show any signs of tiredness again and was playing. He took 30 minutes to fall asleep and was just playing in the cot. He has woken up 130am-3am…mostly playing with occasional crying that came around 230am. He has fallen asleep by himself now. I am confused about whether I am doing the transition too fast and he is overtired so waking so maybe I should pull back or whether he isn’t tired as he has had a massive nap in the day or is this just a normal part of the process.
Your thoughts would be appreciated.
Best wishes
Pav
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Hi Emma,
Thank you for your response. Just two questions – as we are landing at 530pm, if Rohan is asleep on the second flight, shall I just let him sleep or try to have a full wake window and wake him on the plane. When he wakes up in the night, do I try to keep him in his room and read etc hoping he is tired again quickly? Best wishes, Pav
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Thanks Emma. That makes sense or I thought if the second nap became short, eg less than 45 minutes, due to lack of sleep pressure.
Am I able to ask another non urgent question regarding handling jet lag. When Rohan is 17 months old we will be travelling back to Brisbane from the UK to live permanently this time. Our flight departs from the UK at 9am local time. The first leg is 6 hours 45 minutes with a stopover in Doha for 1 hour 45 then a 14 hour flight landing in Brisbane at 530pm. We have tried to plan the flight so Rohan’s nap (we have assumed would be on one nap by then) would be on the first flight and night sleep on the second longer flight. Do you have any advice on how to manage the jet lag for him?
Best wishes, Pav
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Hi Emma,
I have decreased the first nap to 45 minutes 4 days ago and this has solved the bedtime problem for now. He seems tired for nap 2 as shown by him getting quieter and not playing as much at around 3 hrs 30. He is also tired for bedtime after 4 hours and was yawning today when I put him down. I did also decrease the first wake window to 3 hours as he seemed tired in the morning too. He is asleep for naps after 10 minutes and bedtime in 15-20 minutes. I think I will continue with this until it stops working then I thought we could go to one nap if he starts taking ages to fall asleep on this or would you recommend increasing wake windows before going to one nap?
Best wishes, Pav