[Milene van Velzen]

Hi Emma,

Thanks for all your advice.

I have three more questions:

If we extend her wake windows till 2,5 hours, do we have to cap her naps? And which one or all of them? Otherwise it wouldn’t fit to keep her bedtime at around 8-8.30pm if the wake windows extend and the naps stay the same.

The last couple of days when we lay her in bed awake she closes her eyes but then starts moving/spinning in the bed. Sometimes she starts to roll with her face in the mattress, she rolls onto her tummy and back to her side, she scratches with her nails in the mattress and this keeps on repeating, or she just keep on moving through the bed with her eyes open, sometimes even making sweet sounds. She has been sleeping on her tummy for a couple of weeks now, and she also mostly knows how to roll back. But she just keeps on moving and/or spinning in her bed. She then loses the pacifier and we have to give it back. Most of the times this keeps on happening for like 15-20 minutes or so and then either one of two things can happen: 1: she gets upset and starts crying, either because she loses the pacifier or she just opens her eyes because of all the movement, we then have to pick her up and settle her in our arms. Or 2: I eventually try to help her falling asleep with trying to get her calm in the bed by placing my hand on her, sometimes rocking her and shushing. But she then gets frustrated and very upset and I have to take her out and settle her in my arms to sleep because she is just too upset. Is this a sign that she is not tired enough? And for how long do we have to just watch and listen if she keeps on moving in her bed? Because I know it can sometimes take up to 15 minutes or so before a baby will fall asleep independently? What if she hasn’t been falling asleep after the 15 minutes, how could we help her best?

How and when do we know she is ready to drop the last nap of the day?

Thank you so much!

Milène

[Milene van Velzen]

Hi Emma,

Thanks a lot for your suggestions.

We have been establishing a more consistent schedule of naps and bedtime now.

The answers to your questions:

She has a consistent wake up time of 7.15 am.

3- Tweaking the nap schedule

Her nap schedule is:

First nap: 9.15/9.30 – 10.30 am

Second nap: 12.45 – 2.45 pm

Third nap: 17.00 – 17.30 pm

Bedtime: between 8.00-8.30 pm

She did fall asleep independently half of the time and we could settle her in the co-sleeper. But the last couple of days it is harder and she is more upset and sometimes after trying for 5-15 min we have to pick her up and settle her in our arms. We only pick her up if she is really upset and cries a lot. She then usually falls asleep pretty quickly but sometimes it will even take a lot of time to calm her down if she is just too upset.

She still uses the pacifier if she falls asleep in the co-sleeper.

4 – Refining the bedtime routine

We introduced sleeping in the co-sleeper directly at bedtime right after I wrote the last message and it worked. She isn’t sleeping in the carrier anymore, so that’s a big win!

With bedtime we find that she needs a wake window of 2,5-3 hours to be ready to bed, otherwise she won’t be tired enough and we can’t get her te sleep.

Also during the day she falls at the higher end of the wake window times. We have tried to shorten it, after a shorter night for example, but then we don’t get her te sleep.

We used the settling pyramid with bedtime as well but it has never been really effective. She is just too upset and it escalates quickly. She cries so much that we almost can’t calm her down anymore. Even with only rocking her in our arms, without using the pyramid in the co-sleeper, it is so much harder to settle jet at bedtime. Is it wise to still try to get her in bed awake and use the settling pyramid every time even though she is already upset when singing the lullaby and rocking her in our arms? Do you have any tips on how we can keep her a little bit more calm? She is so different from your baby daughter in the videos, ours isn’t protesting or stirring a bit but her crying is basically screaming as hard as she can.

Sometimes she does wake up after one sleepcycle and we do help her to fall asleep again by giving her the pacifier (if she lost it) and putting our hand on her back and sometimes rocking her in the crib. Is it the best idea to also try and use the settling pyramid at this time? We want to keep the gap between waking and falling asleep again as short as possible. But we understand that if she doesn’t learn how to fall asleep independently she will always need us to help her.

It looks like she has a sleep association with falling asleep at night after her feed. She does fall asleep after her feed in our arms and when we transfer her to the co-sleeper within 15 minutes or so, because our backs can’t hold it anymore, she most of the times will wake up. If we keep her in our arms for longer than 15 minutes until she is in a deeper sleep state she will stay asleep.

5 – Feeding before bed

Regarding the ebook of the feeding aversion, I can email it to you if you would like to read it?

Thank you so much again.

Milène

[Milene van Velzen]

Hi Emma,

Thank you for your extensive reply.

We will start phasing out the pacifier later on when she enjoys feeding again.

For now we have been working on getting her used to sleep in the her own crib instead of our bed and that’s working perfectly!

1 – Consistent wake up time

We tried to have a consistent wake up time of 7 am but because of the early wake up times and difficulties with getting her back to sleep we have adjusted the alarm on those days till 7.30 am because otherwise she is just asleep when we wake her at 7 am. But I think it’s best to wake her up at 7 am regardless if she has just fallen asleep from her previous wake up? Do we have to adjust her first wake window to a shorter one if she has just fallen asleep before we wake her at 7 am?

2 – Resisting naps

We haven’t changed anything about the nap or bedtime routine but she is not resisting it so much anymore, so that’s great! Sometimes a little cry when we put on her sleeping bag but as soon as she gets the pacifier she’s calm.

3 – Tweaking the nap schedule

Her day does look something like that but sometimes her first nap is also 1,5 hours and then everything shifts to a later bedtime in the end. Is that okay or do we have to cap her naps if she is sleeping too much during the day? You mentioned it’s normal for babies 4 months of age to sleep between 3-4,5 hours during the day but how do we know if she needs 3 hours or if she needs 4,5 hours? I mean without negatively affecting her nighttime sleep.

4 – Refining the bedtime routine

Unfortunately we haven’t tried to get her to sleep in her crib at bedtime yet, because of some personal (health) problems and us being so tired we have been tweaking our shifts so that we both get a little bit more quality sleep. So she still sleeps in the carrier with one of us at the 7.30-8pm-ish sleep, then we feed her at around 11 pm. She falls asleep immediately after feeding in our arms, we hold her upright for 20 minutes because of the reflux and then we put her in the crib.

She usually wakes up around 3.15-4.00 am for another feed. But from there on, more than 50% of the nights, it’s chaos. It takes about 1,5-2 hours to get her back to sleep. After she finishes the feed, she’s usually very calm and falls asleep in a couple of minutes on our shoulder in the ‘burb-pose’. When we put her in de crib again after 15-20 minutes, she stays asleep but wakes up after like 5 minutes or so and it’s almost impossible to get her back to sleep. We have to rock her to sleep several times again without success and she’s extremely upset in between attempts. The other less than 50% of the times, it rotates between these 3 situations:

A) most of the times, she wakes up at a different time than 3.15-4am. When this happens, she usually wakes around 5am and if that happens, it’s also almost impossible to get her back to sleep – probably because of lack of melatonine and too much daylight since sun rises around 5am this time of year in The Netherlands(?).

B) She falls asleep after the feed and stays asleep and we’re very lucky.

C) And if we’re very very very lucky, she’s sleeping through the entire night until the alarm rings at 7 am.

So our question is what can be the reason that we cannot get her back to sleep after a 3.15-4.00 am wake up? It’s still dark outside at that time. Could it also be that she is not tired enough anymore and we have to adjust her bedtime? Or do we have to adjust her nap times so she won’t sleep that long during the day?

We have been trying to record the time she falls asleep in a deep sleep when she is in the carrier at night and it’s usually around 10.30-11.00 pm. The last couple of days her bedtime happened to be around 9.00 pm instead of 8.00 pm. She falls asleep pretty quickly in the carrier, it doesn’t matter at what time we get her in there, but she always stirs or wakes up around 30 minutes later and most of the times 30-60 minutes later again. But I don’t think her usual bedtime should be around 10.30-11.00 pm?

5 – Feeding before bed

We are following the aversion protocol of Rowena Bennett. In short: you have to follow babies lead and no pressure whatsoever is allowed. We are only allowed to offer her a feed every 3 hours during the day (not when she is asleep) and she decides whether she wants it or not. If not we can try 5-20 minutes later and if she still rejects it we have to wait for the next feeding round unless she stays fussy and hungry for a long period, then we can offer again.

We have bought the ebook. I can send it to you if you are interested?

Kind regards,

Milène

[Milene van Velzen]

Hi Emma,

Thank you for your reply and your questions.

1. We have seen a lot of different medical professionals and they all said we didn’t have to worry about the reflux because all babies have it and they don’t recommend medication. Our daughter does have reflux even 1-2 hours after a feed or even when she wakes up again after a nap. But it also depends on how calmly she drinks and she drinks quite restless, especially with the aversion which hasn’t fully resolved yet. So it’s also really challenging to give her tummy time because she hates it and we can only try it after 45 min or so after the feed.

1. The schedule does look a bit like that, but it depends on if her first nap is only 30 min or if it is 50 min, because if so everything shifts later. Also her second nap is usually around 2,5 hours, if she transitions into the second sleepcycle or if we help her to transition into it by rocking her on the bed for 15 minutes (otherwise she will just wake up). Is this something we can do to help her take a longer nap?
   Her last nap of the day is mostly a little bit later around 5 pm, sometimes even 5.30 pm and lasts 30-45 min. Do we have to cap this nap if it gets too late? And what is the best time for her last nap? Do we have to adjust the rest of the day according to her bedtime and last nap time?
   We use a wake window of 2 hours, is that right or do we have to move it a bit up to 2.15-2.30 hours already?

1. We don’t exactly know if she falls asleep in a deeper sleep at a specific time every night, we will take notes the upcoming days to see if there is a set time for it.

1. Overnight we wake her up for her last feed of the day somewhere between 10-12 pm and if we wake her up around 10 pm she wakes up around 2 am again or if we wake her around 12 pm then she wakes up around 5 am. But 5 am is a bit too close to her wake up time of 7-7.30 am so we now wake her up between 10-11 pm. We wake her up instead of waiting for her to wake up because of the aversion protocol because she needs to drink above a certain amount.

1. Yes we follow a wake-play-feed-play-sleep routine and the feed is always separate from her naps.

1. Yes her routine looks like that. She gets the pacifier during her nappy change or even earlier when she is really fussy. Sometimes she loses the pacifier after the nappy change and then she gets it again when she has her sleeping bag on. She doesn’t have a final feed before bedtime because of the reflux and because of the aversion protocol so we follow the wake-play-feed-play-sleep routine. Do you normally recommend feeding twice in the last wake window? So right after the wake up and during the wind down routine again?

1. Yes the routine looks the same for her naps.

1. Yes she sleeps directly on our bed. But we are also letting her sleep in the crib (co-sleeper) now for the first 2 naps and try to settle her in there and it’s kind of working. But due to the 4 month sleep regression, we think, she is really fussy now as we try to settle her on the bed or in her crib, we have to take her out multiple times because she is so upset and screams and it’s really hard and takes a long time to settle her down with the settling pyramid. Sometimes it won’t work and we have to rock her to sleep in our arms.

1. Yes it is harder to settle her for naps and bedtime. She is crying already when we put her sleeping bag on but sometimes even earlier in the routine. She really is fighting sleep at the moment.

1. Yes, I think the pacifier is a sleep association and we have already tried to settle her without it but that’s not possible at all at the moment. She becomes so upset and continues to scream until we give it to her. We have tried to slip it out right before she falls asleep and sometimes it works but sometimes she wakes up and starts crying again and we have to start all over. Sometimes she spits it out herself before she falls asleep and we do have the sense that she is sleeping for longer stretches if she isn’t sleeping with the pacifier in. Do you think we should remove it altogether? And do you think this is a good strategy to implement right now with the 4 month sleep regression and the aversion protocol? I do have my doubts because she needs to sleep well to feed well and if she is so upset when we try to settle her she might sleep less and it takes us way more time to get her to sleep, but you probably have more experience with this?
   And if we don’t use the pacifier for sleep anymore can we still use it during the day if she is upset?
2. Her sleep environment is quiet, it’s dark at night but with the sun during the day it can be a bit too bright, we have already ordered some blackout curtains. The temperature is the same during almost the whole year at around 22 degrees, but here it’s summer now and the room is 25 degrees, but we dress her accordingly.

Thank you so much,

Kind regards,

Milène

P.s: I’m sorry the text won’t let me adjust the numbers so every answer is number one right now..