[Robin FRAITURE]

Hi Emma!

Yes of course! Sorry, I should have been more specific. We are currently in the United Arab Emirates, which means:

His usual 6.30am wake up time in the UAE > would be 4.30am in the Netherlands (2 hours earlier). We are in the Netherlands for 2 months.

The 4-day nap schedule Im trying to follow looks like this:

6.30am wake up

8-9am 1st nap

10.45-11.45am 2nd nap

1.45am-2.45am 3rd nap

4.45am-5.15am 4th nap

7.30pm bedtime

However, I’ve not yet accomplished this always and am flexible with it. Maxi needs 4 naps, but sometimes his wake windows are 1.30h and his naps are a maximum of 45 min. This resulted in that his bedtime has more often been at 6.30pm instead> sometimes with a maximum wake window of 2.30h rather than 2hrs or 2.15hrs.

Looking forward to your feedback again! Thanks as always for your time. Have a nice weekend

[Robin FRAITURE]

Hi Emma!

Thanks for your kind reply again. He didn’t learn new motor skills so it may indeed be the wake windows. I’m trying a 4-day nap schedule now using the Huckleberry app. I think his naps have slightly improved.

I also fed him before his second nap today. He fell asleep on my chest and for the first time again he slept on his back after placing him in his co sleeper. It was probably lucky. Its not recommended to feed to sleep right during the day right?

Over the last week -when he refused sleeping on his back- I’ve placed him on his tummy and he slept like this (supervised) for daytime catnaps in his co sleeper (around 30-45 min max). We once test placed him on his tummy for bedtime (when my husband supervised) and he slept for 1 hour. Perhaps not a huge difference in duration as I used to be able to place him on his back for a catnap after his bedtime until our recent relapse. But I do feel like he prefers his tummy! There’s not been any protest when I lie him down on his tummy. On his back, there usually is.

I have one more question on overnight feeds. I think we regressed with more night wakings and I’ve fallen in the bad habit to feed him. I’m specifically noticing he’s wanting a feed in the morning hours around 5am. Would you recommend feeding at this hour close to wake up at 6.30am?

And apologies for not clarifying. It will be 2 hours earlier in the Netherlands compared to the current time.

Thanks again, as always!

• This reply was modified 8 months, 3 weeks ago by  Robin FRAITURE.
• This reply was modified 8 months, 3 weeks ago by  Robin FRAITURE.

[Robin FRAITURE]

Hi Emma,

I hope all is well.

Small update from our side, we had a slight relapse during the daytime naps. Maxi refused to sleep on his back. Perhaps it has smth to do with his development at 5 months? Our local ped gave the go ahead to place him on his tummy for daytime naps but only when we’re watching him during the day. We will not do this yet at night or when I’m not on top of it as he has still not mastered rolling from his back to his tummy. He now wakes by pushing himself up.

I’ve been trying the tweaked routine for the bedtime but have not succeeded yet. Either because Maxi is still to awake after his feed or he did fall asleep (because I left him on my breast for too long), or refused to settle when I placed him drowsy on his back in his co sleeper after the feed.

We won’t give up of course and will keep on trying. We’ll get there one way or the other!

One question, were soon travelling for 2 months to the Netherlands and there will be a time difference of 2 hours due to the new timezone. Do you recommend anything for this or will it sort itself out naturally with a bedtime routine and blackout curtains?

Thank you again! Have a nice weekend

[Robin FRAITURE]

Hi Emma!

Thanks so much again!

A. When Maxi is asleep, his legs aren’t restless. This is only in awake state

B. The 2hr wake window unfortunately thus far hasn’t worked to help him out of these 30-min at night.

I’ll try the tweaks to the method with consistency. I think you’re right, before this rocking motion did help already slightly! And the tweaked routine deff sounds doable. Thanks also for your reassurance.

Have a great weekend

[Robin FRAITURE]

Hi Emma!

Of course, Maxi’s schedule currently looks mostly like this. He’s still at 5 naps and 1.5hr wake windows mostly- aside from bedtime.

– between 6:30-7am wake.up

– 1st nap between 8:15-9:00am (30 minutes)

– 2nd nap between 10:45-11:30 (30 minutes)

-.3rd nap between 13:00-13:45 (30 minutes)

Irregular from here

– 4th nap between 15:00-16:00 (45 minutes)

– 5th nap if he needs it between 17:00-18:00 (20 minutes)

– bedtime is a bit depending on the day between 7-8pm

I still do the 5th nap if he seems tired and try to limit it so it doesn’t go over 6pm- and the 2hr wake window before bedtime.

I hope this clarifies.

Thanks again!

Robin

[Robin FRAITURE]

Hi Emma,

Thanks for this! I’ll try the new routine. If he refuses the breast 30 mins before the nap (happened today) I’ll just let it go.

And to your questions. For both naps and bedtime, I now try to reduce my input as its been really difficult to place him awake/drowsy in his co sleeper. It comes with immediate protest and Im not able to get him to fall asleep by himself when applying the pyramid technique following this.

So for naps he currently falls asleep usually whilst walking, rocking, shushing him and then I transfer him to his co sleeper.

For bedtime, he falls asleep indeed after walking with him whilst holding against my chest, rocking, shushing. I gradually reduce my input here, until I just stand still and he falls asleep. Then I transfer him to the co sleeper.

I’ve not been able to accomplish it in a different way thus far.

Thanks for your help again!

[Robin FRAITURE]

Hi Emma,

So kind of you to have been thinking about us! On 2. Just to make sure…implementing this would mean a wake-eat-play-eat (30 mins before before the nap)- sleep routine for both daytime naps and before he goes to bed at night?

And great question! Maxi actually does enjoy playing whilst laying down on his back during the day. I try to place him for most of his playtime on the playmat. Depending on his mood and attention span with his toys he can play on his back for a little while until he gets bored or until I alternate his position for tummy or side time. He can even entertain himself for a little bit like that! whilst I make a coffee for example (whilst having him in view). Quite adorable to watch.

Thanks again for your time!

P.s. also following the threads from other parents on your forum eagerly.

P.p.s your developmental course has also been extremely helpful!

[Robin FRAITURE]

Hi Emma, update from our side. I’ve been trying really hard to keep the 2hr wake window consistent but there have been some days where it was 1.5 or 2.5 hrs. On the moments we kept it at 2hrs, I have not accomplished yet to place Maxi in his co-sleeper drowsy. The best I’ve accomplished is after the routine> gradually reducing my movement so I stand still at some point- he falls asleep on me standing still and then placing him in the co-sleeper. Most days were still at 30 to 45 minutes at best in his next to me co-sleeper at this stage and it’s still been hard to get him back in the co-sleeper after that first sleep cycle..thus we’re continuing the chest sleeps overnight so he sleeps for longer stretches in a row despite the 4-month sleep regression that plays up in the early morning hours.

Now I must also admit that our routine sometimes ends( for both naps & bedtime) in the bedroom and sometimes in the darkened living room (if my husband is napping in the bedroom before he takes him at night).

I’m wondering the following:

1.You mentioned that he’s allowed to sleep on his belly only if he rolls there himself naturally, correct?

2. Should I offer feedings 30 minutes before naptime instead of following a wake-feed-play-sleep routine so he does longer daytime naps maybe? Will this then make any difference for the night? I’m not quite sure myself if this will make any difference since as part of his bedtime routine, I offer him an extra feed 30 minutes before bedtime and he still wakes 30/45 minutes into his first sleepcycle after bedtime.

Do you have any other recommendations for us?

I hope that patience and persistence will help us as I’d like to work with your technique rather than any other sleep method. I find it really tough to watch him cry- it increases both our cortisol levels.

Have a great weekend!

• This reply was modified 9 months, 2 weeks ago by  Robin FRAITURE.
• This reply was modified 9 months, 2 weeks ago by  Robin FRAITURE.
• This reply was modified 9 months, 2 weeks ago by  Robin FRAITURE.

[Robin FRAITURE]

Hi Emma! I’ll let you know how it goes. We’ve not been able to lie him down awake or drowsy in his co sleeper at night. I usually place him there after he fell asleep in my arms. I’ll also try laying him down awake some more and will let you know.

Have a nice weekend!

[Robin FRAITURE]

Hi Emma,

Thanks to your course here I’ve been able to stay patient. Thank you from my heart! And for your time as well. I really hope to avoid the crying it out method that some other parents advised me from 4 months upon.

With regards to the bedtime routine: I’ve noticed that between 6-7pm Maxi usually gives sleepy cues (fuzziness mostly). In this time we calm down (no stimulating activities, dimming all the living room lights, playing the same Disney lullaby, diaper change, pyjama on, sleepsack on in the living room with dimmed lights. We maybe read a book if he’s still awake. Or I walk a little with him in the living room. One more breastfeed if he’s searching for the breast. He often falls asleep here after nursing actually.

Then I walk into the dark bedroom, turn on the white noise. I sit down on the rocking chair with him against my chest. I stop rocking the chair. He sometimes falls asleep early around 7:30pm but mostly it’s by 8pm. If he’s asleep I gently place him in his co-sleeper. This is where he then lasts around 30 minutes.

Thank you again!

[Robin FRAITURE]

Hi Emma,

Many thanks again for your help! I’ve started implementing the schedule. Trying to stay consistent as we travel on Thursday already. Its working fine thus far! It also helped that he naturally seems to have shifted somewhat. He wakes up early but we accomplished to stay in the room until 7am today.

Hopefully we’ll make some sleep progress over summer with him getting more time outdoor again also.

Will keep you posted!

[Robin FRAITURE]

Hi Emma!

Yes, apologies for not having mentioned this…he’s doing most of his daytime naps in the co sleeper now!! Lately it takes sometimes him to stay on my chest to fall into a deeper sleep, but after that I’m able to transfer him without protest and he stays for his 45 min nap then.

Thanks for your suggestion also on the wake window before bedtime. He sometimes had longer wake windows but I can’t remember if they were 2hrs or longer which probably actually caused overtiredness then. I’ll try a strict 2hr wake window and not much longer to see if it helps.

Unfortunately I haven’t been able to settle him around bedtime after that first 30/45 min stretch in his co sleeper. I tried the pyramid technique, sometimes for 1hr straight, but he keeps on protesting after I place him back in the crib.

Just to clarify, I follow moving up and down the pyramid. But my final step involves me taking him out the co sleeper, holding him against my chest and walking / shushing/ rocking up and down when held against the chest (rather from side to side) until he falls asleep again. I tried sometimes to stay standing still or rocking him in a cradle hold from side to side but that often came with protest at night (during the day he accepts the cradle hold whilst rocking him sometimes). So until he settles down at night, I hold him against my chest, walk, rock, shush. When he calms down I stand still and stop shushing, and I try to place him back in the co sleeper at this point.

Thanks so much for not giving up on us. I’ll also try to discuss this some more with his local paediatrician during his upcoming visit.

• This reply was modified 10 months ago by  Emma H. Reason: removed html coding

[Robin FRAITURE]

Hi Emma!

Thanks so much again! I’m making sure to have a 1.5hr wake window at least before bedtime. I’m trying also to have a consistent sleep routine each night. I also tried extending the wake windows yesterday so he naturally skips the 5th nap. I find him calm overall around bedtime. However, we’ve unfortunately still not been able to go beyond the 30 to 45 minutes at night in the co sleeper. After that point, he wakes up and it’s still not been possible to get him back in the co-sleeper to sleep some more.

I’m trying to implement the pyramid each night for 1hr but he’ll still only continue sleeping when placed on our chest after this first night waking. He seems to extend his cat napping of the day to his first 30 minute stretch in the co sleeper at night? I’m not sure if this is a thing of 4-month olds?

Thanks again!!

• This reply was modified 10 months ago by  Robin FRAITURE.
• This reply was modified 10 months ago by  Robin FRAITURE.

[Robin FRAITURE]

Hi Emma!

This definitely sounds good. I started trying from last night. Unfortunately no success yet. I tried from 08:30pm to 09:30pm using the pyramid technique. At 09:30 I needed some rest so my husband took him on the chest. I tried to place him in the co sleeper again using the pyramid from 01:30-02:30 with no success, after which I took over on the chest. But I won’t give up! I’ll keep you posted. I hope the routine will make our little one more confident.

About his naps. He wakes up between 06:30-07:00. It looks more or less like this:

1st nap: usually 30-40min between 08:30-09:30

2nd nap: usually max 1hr between 10:30-11:30

3rd nap: usually 40 min between 12:30-14:00

From here it becomes more irregular

4th nap: can be 30 min to 1hr around 15:30-16:30.

5th nap: very irregular! & depends on his wake window after the 4th nap. Maxi usually becomes tired after 1:30h like you mentioned. The 5th nap can be 30 min somewhere between 17:00-19:00. Yesterday, he skipped it completely. This final nap has also occasionally extended into bedtime if after 7pm.

Maxi sometimes already wants to sleep at 7:30pm. Our ideal bedtime is between 07:30pm-08:00pm so he wakes up between 06:30-7am.

Thanks again!!

• This reply was modified 10 months, 2 weeks ago by  Robin FRAITURE.

[Robin FRAITURE]

1. Hi Emma! No problem! Thanks for thinking along with us! Your point 2 is the case. See my reply below.

2. When he’s placed in his co sleeper at 8pm, he wakes up 30 minutes later. After that, I get ready to go to bed and my husband takes him on his chest until I take over around 3am. I’m aware that this is dangerous and completely unadvisable. Maxi wakes up twice usually during the night around 00:30am & 3:30 am.

3. He sleeps in the co‑sleeper from around 7:30–8:00 pm, and then you and your husband take turns holding him against your chests for the remainder of the night? This is correct. See 2 above.

4. I realise that his last nap has been irregular. His 5th and final nap of the day has occasionally extended into his bedtime at night at 8pm (This would happen if his final nap is after or around 7pm). Nonetheless, half the time, the 5th nap ended around 6:15pm this month.

I hope this clarifies slightly! Thanks again!

Robin