[Livia Csapo]

Hi Emma!

Thank you for your words of encouragement, it means a lot to me! The past few days have been really tough, especially yesterday.

Things seem to be getting better, though.

Last night after a huge meltdown trying to put her to sleep, I swaddled her fully and she slept for… 10 hours from 7:07 to 05:14! With a short intermission at 1 a.m. when she was crying in her sleep and I thought she was hungry, but when I put her at the boob she just suckled for 2 minutes and went on sleeping.

And we just had a sleep without a meltdown before it :). Some crying, still falling asleep in my arms, but not a meltdown!

Baby steps 🙂

I am quite excited to be rid of the pacifier without any side effects!

I will write to that email address, thank you!

[Livia Csapo]

Hello Emma, I really struggled in the past few days to find time to write here. Things have taken a bit of a bad turn. Basically, the pacifier started damaging the sleep more and more (she started waking up even during the night after losing it and seemed more and more desperate for it) and we tried to remove it right as she was falling asleep, but it didn’t work. She would instantly wake up and start screaming.

So we decided to stop giving her the pacifier cold turkey. We are on day 3 and boy, is it hard. Whenever she knows sleep is coming (room gets dark, white noise, etc), she starts looking for or expecting the pacifier. The poor dear will lick or suck at air, or try to suck on anything that is close by, like my t-shirt or the side of the bed. And when these things turn out NOT to be the pacifier, she cries. A lot. She basically cries to sleep, all in my arms. I try as much as possible to rock her as little as possible before she falls asleep and to make sure it stops before the shushing, but she seems to need that rocking for confort. Overall, she’s been pretty fussy during the day, but we are powering through. I read that it takes about a week to wean off the pacifier.

Good things seem to have come out of it, though. Ever since we stopped giving the pacifier, the naps have become… clearer and less granular. Not very long, but they are now 3, max 4 per day. She tends to sleep longer nights (12.5 to 13 h on average), split into 3, and then about 3 naps of about 40 minutes each, evenly split during the day.

Should the naps be longer in general? How much should a 4 month old sleep on average per day?

The time for going to bed is now a bit earlier, around 7:30 pm.

The 3 night sleeps would probably be 2, but that stuffed nose is the culprit, and I won’t be able to talk to a doctor about it for the next 3 weeks.

She is still sleeping with one arm swaddled, as our attempts with both arms have been disastrous this far, aka waking up very often and crying a lot in her sleep. As a matter of fact, I fully swaddled her a few times (when she gets really agitated and I know she needs the sleep, usually towards morning or attempting a longer midday nap) and these are still the best sleeps she gets for now.

Again, something I noticed in the past week or so, cryingin her sleep. She gets more and more agitated, until she starts crying and she doesn’t seem to be… awake. Is that possible? Most of the time the reason is that damned stuffed nose. This just happened now as I was writing this, exactly as I described it. I picked her up as she wouldn’t stop, I fed her (this was after 3.5 hours of sleep) since it’s the only thing that seems to calm her. I think she was still asleep throughout it .

Then I reswaddled her and she started crying again, this time awake, and she only calmed down when she fell asleep in my arms. As I tried to transfer her, the moment she touched the crib, she started rubbing her face, became agitated, was looking for the pacifier and started crying again. I had to have her fall asleep again in my arms and this time I also managed to get some saline drops in her nose. Hoping for the better…

Nope, the second attempt at a transfer was even worse, it was followed by a huge 30 min meltdown, that only stopped when I swaddled her completely and eventually transferred her to the crib.

I am hoping that once she gets over the pacifier things will get better, cause right now they don’t look great at all.

I am sure I had more things to tell and ask, but nothing comes to mind right now. I will edit this post if I remember.

Oh yes! Is there a place where I could send some feed-back regarding the website? I am having some trouble with this post editor and with the video player in the program,

Thank you again and hoping for some advice on how to improve this situation.

• This reply was modified 9 months, 2 weeks ago by  Emma H.

[Livia Csapo]

Hi Emma,

I have updates and a few questions.

The first 2 days after the flight were hard from all points of view, sleep included. The temperature was about 3 degrees hotter than what she was used to and it took a while to install the portable AC. The room is still not as dark as I would like it, but I am working towards it. This, plus being tired from the trip and a vaccine she had received one day prior to the flight made for a few hard days for us. Then things settled.

Right now she sleeps way more in the crib than before, the naps have become a bit longer and not so often during the day (they tend to be about one hour long on average and it’s usually in 15 min increments).

She tends to fall asleep at 8 pm local (9pm for the other home) and in the past 2 nights she had 8.5 to 9 hour long sleeps (!!!). This means she woke up at about 5 am local(6 at home). And this is where my first question comes. Should I consider this the end of the night sleep or not? Let me tell you what I did and please tell me if it’s OK. The answer to my question for me was a bit of both. She seemed pretty fresh when she woke up, she ate, got a diaper change and then I decided to try to keep her awake (did this twice). And both times we played in bed, had a bit of tummy time since she was in such a good mood, made the compulsory daily videos for the family and then went back to sleep. Normally during the day she seems to want to fall asleep after 1.5 hours, but at these times it was one hour almost sharp. And then both times proceeded to sleep some more for about 2.5 to 3 hours, so very different from the rest of the daily naps. So it feels a bit like a continuation of the night sleep, but it also feels like a nap as well. Any advice on this front? Is what I am doing ok?

Then, falling asleep has been a hit or miss, depending on the day or the time of the day. Overall, she seems to be back to her strong hate for being swaddled, but still wakes herself up by rubbing at her face (I think her nose gets clogged and that’s when she does it). However, in the next month, 6 weeks maybe, I will have to get her to sleep unswaddled, that will be a fun transition… 🥲.

Last night she was calm and chill and let me swaddle her and she fell asleep effortlessly in her crib. Most of the times, however, all is good until I swaddle her and then hell breaks loose and she will either fall asleep shushed in my arms (I started to stop rocking her first and then the shushing), or shushed in her crib, but with my hand on her torso, to stop her from squirming too much, which seems to keep her awake.

Should I attempt free hand(s) during day naps to get her used to it? Today she (again) almost fell asleep in her crib by herself, but when I swaddled her she became so angry, she didn’t even sleep anymore, only 30-40 minutes later after other activities.

And last but definitely not least… what do we do about falling pacifiers during sleep?

It seems to be the no 1 culprit for waking up during the sleeps. Sometimes she spits it out and ignores it. But most of the time it falls out of her mouth and she will start to slowly wail looking for it and it increases and then she wakes up, unless I am there to put it back in her mouth. I noticed in the evening it happens in the first hour after falling asleep and then in the morning close to waking up, when she is hungry, and it makes sense. Tonight she fell asleep without the pacifier (I think she had some tummy issues and cried like crazy for 20 minutes and fell asleep in my husband’s arms), and she didn’t wake up, it felt great. Truth be told, I would like to slowly wean her off the pacifier now that the reflux is not an issue anymore.

How do you advise we do it and what should we do for now about the falling pacifiers during sleep?

PS. I expect at some point in the next 2 months for her to reach a point where she will wake up every hour during the night, as part of the sleep regression. Is it a valid expectation to have?

Thanks and sorry for the wall of text, I tend to digress a lot 😅.

[Livia Csapo]

Hello Emma,

Thank you for the answers, I was thinking about keeping the same real times for her despite the change in time zone, but I was not sure.

I have updates.

The reflux is totally gone now (yaaay!), and in the past 3 evening she managed to fall asleep in her crib all by herself! Then proceeded to have 7 to 8 hour long sleeps! Then again by herself, followed by 2 to 3 hour long sleeps and then woke up (by herself actually) between 8 and 8:30 am.

Naps are still short and random, but I managed to get her to sleep a few in the crib and I am trying to implement the routine every time.

As for the flight tomorrow, we will be landing exactly as she should wake up, that will be interesting. Good thing it’s a small airport and we’ll be moving fast!

I will let you know how it goes!

Thank you once again!

[Livia Csapo]

Hi Emma! Thanks for taking time to find a solution for us!

Again, I will try to answer each of your questions in turn:

How did your appointment with the paediatric gastroenterologist go? Were they happy with how the medication is working? Have you noticed any changes since stopping dairy? – It was great, I did see some improvement already, I stopped the syrup, as a matter of fact, so sleep training might be easier to implement now. We did blood work to see any food allergies from my milk, awaiting the result in over a week.

• If you’re happy with her current bedtime, you might aim for her wake-up time to be between 8:00 and 8:30 am. – I think I will go with that, just because I think going to bed too early is not very doable for us.

To help make your days more predictable and gently encourage Emilia into a consistent nap routine, try scheduling her first nap around the same time each morning. This approach works best when her wake-up time is regular. – I already did this (I read some of your other answers to other people, hehe) and it seems to work, I love it! And yes, it is usually between 1 hour and 15 minutes and 1 hour and 30 minutes since waking up!

Swaddling

You mentioned that Emilia seemed to sleep better when you returned to using the traditional swaddle. Has this improvement continued? – I think so, yes. For now, I will stick to this one. She hates it no matter what I use to swaddle her 😀

Follow a Nap Routine (Even for Carrier or Stroller Naps)

It would be great if you could introduce a nap routine (even if she is napping in the carrier) as these activities will become a sleep association, letting Emilia know that it’s time to go to sleep. The idea is that once she learns what these activities mean, when you do them before a nap and lay her down in the crib, the transition won’t be as jarring and it should make it easier for Emilia to adjust and then as a result easier for you to apply the settling pyramid to help her fall asleep. If you are happy to implement a nap routine, you just want to make sure it is a shorter version of the bedtime routine. So it might be something like this:

If Emilia naps in the crib:

• Take her into the bedroom.

• Swaddle her and offer her pacifier.

• Darken the room and turn on white noise.

• Gently rock her while singing the same familiar bedtime song.

• If she’s calm, lay her down awake in the crib and use the settling pyramid.

• If she’s unsettled or you’re not ready to try the settling pyramid, help her fall asleep in your arms, but aim for her to fall asleep without movement. Here’s how:

  1. After you finish singing, continue rocking her in your arms.

  2. Begin adding a gentle “shh” rhythm alongside the rocking.

  3. Gradually slow the rocking until you’re barely moving – just shushing.

  4. Finally, stop shushing and stand still and silent until she drifts off.

  By reducing the rocking, Emilia will learn to fall asleep while you’re standing still, which will make it much smoother to transition her into the crib and use the settling pyramid when she’s ready.

  All of this is fantastic advice! I will put it to good use and come back with the results.

If Emilia naps in the stroller:

• Take her into the bedroom.

• Swaddle her and offer her pacifier.

• Darken the room and turn on white noise.

• Rock her gently and sing your usual bedtime song.

• Place her in the stroller and then begin your walk.
  
  I am not sure how this will work, but I will try it. The issue is that from the penultimate to the last step there is a very big distance, literally, that tends to disrupt her and make her wide awake. I live on the 4th floor with no elevator, so from my apartment to the stroller I have to go down 4 flights of stairs with Emilia in my arms. During this time, she tends to get distracted by all the wonderful things she sees on our way. Any idea how I can solve this situation?

Bedtime Routine

Bedtime is usually the best time to use the settling pyramid because their circadian rhythm and sleep pressure are working together encouraging them to fall asleep. But since Emilia needs to be held upright after feeding – and often falls asleep during that time – it might make it slightly challenging to use the settling pyramid at bedtime. – Actually, things have changed since… the reflux seems to be almost gone, but she still cries from time to time because of gas still. But it is way better after eating now (a few days ago she actually stopped eating and smiled at me – a first after eating for her!). So it is very doable now to try it out at bedtime.

As a matter of fact, something strange has been happening since yesterday. Crying seemingly without a reason (most probably gas), and prefers to lie down than be held. So… going to bed last night and once today was actually in her crib rather than my arms. The only difference is that I was still shushing by the time she was falling asleep, as she was still pretty distressed. This might make learning to sleep by herself easier. Will return with updates.

Edit after putting her to sleep tonight: She cried a bit, then cried some more once I swaddled her (of course!), but I managed to calm her down and put her in her crib. She started crying again, but I shushed her while keeping my hand on her chest (she would rather I rock her a bit or do nothing, the tapping seems to scare her). Then I went down the pyramid. She kept looking at some small light in the corner and fell asleep like that. Success! One small step… 😀

I have a few extra questions:

1. How about trips, or having to run errands, or anything that does not imply the dark bedroom at home? I know these are occasional, but I am curious if there is any way to include these as well. Maybe create some sort of routine on the go as well? I am 99% of the time alone with her and if I have to run errands, I just have to. Like in these past few days, preparing for a trip next week. I was out of the house twice a day.

2. Speaking of trips, we will have a flight next Tuesday at 6 am. We have to be at the airport at 4 am. Which means I will wake her up at about 3:30. Most probably I will just take her and put her in the carrier and hope she will keep on sleeping. We will also change timezones by one hour (8 am becomes 7 am). The trip will be one week or two, not sure yet, we will see how it goes. Most probably there will be plenty of similar trips in the future, we are going to visit daddy in our other home :). The sleeping conditions will be very similar, also plenty of parks and a lake near the apartment. She will have the same crib and mattress, the same changing station, the same lamps that light up the room just so slightly during the night. The same toys hanging above the crib and the changing station. There will be a different thing: this time I have an elevator – but still living on the 4th floor. Are there any suggestions you have regarding dealing with sleep training during this trip and next ones, maybe?

Thank you so much!

Livia.

[Livia Csapo]

Hi Emma,

No worries about the questions! I really appreciate the way you work and your attention to detail, sometimes the smallest things can make a difference!

I will answer them all one by one.

Has Emilia’s doctor or paediatrician been helping you manage this? Yes, we have been trying out different options for over a month now.

Have you been given any guidance on how long it might take to see a change in Emilia’s symptoms if dairy is contributing? – Yes, I am doing this with her doctor, not much of a difference one week in, hoping for more as time passes.

It’s encouraging that Emilia gets a longer stretch of sleep at the start of the night. – actually, this kind of stopped about 2 weeks ago, when the reflux came back stronger. Previously we had a long stretch of about 6 hours in the beginning, and a shorter one, now we have 3 stretches of about 3-4 hours each.

Later edit: she just slept for 7 hours the first stretch of the night. Maybe it’s the swaddle, I moved back to the classic one again last night. Maybe it was because she was dead tired after crying a lot yesterday. We’ll see how it goes in the next few days.

1. Does Emilia have a consistent morning wake-up time? If so what time does she wake? – Approximately, I haven’t gotten to set one for her yet, I was still deciding between 7 or 8 AM. I just checked the tracking app and I see she tends to wake up by herself at 9 AM, +/- one hour.

2. Are you following a “wake, feed, play, sleep” routine during the day? – not really. It rarely works. Most of the time it’s “wake, feed, cry, sleep”, unfortunately. Or “wake, play, feed, cry, sleep”. Even this morning I tried to have her fall asleep in her bed by herself for her first nap and I’d say it was a half success. It was either crying and trying desperately to get out of the swaddle/sleeping sack (I tried them both this morning, ended up with the classic swaddle), or just asleep already. I call it a half success because she was not fully asleep when I put her in bed.

3. Does she use a pacifier while sleeping in the carrier? – yes. on and off. In general she tends to drop the pacifier as she falls asleep. In the carrier she also likes to suck on her fists, since they are there, close by 🙂 .

4. If she isn’t rolling yet, would you be open to trying a more traditional swaddle again? Or have you noticed that she is more settled now that she has had a few days to get familiar with the new swaddle? – she’s not rolling yet, no. I will try to get back to the classic swaddle to see if anything chances. Already did this morning. I think the sleeping sack swaddle is a bit too big for Emilia. I will get to my sewing machine next week and I’ll make it smaller, to see it’s better.

5. From what you’ve described, is this Emilia’s bedtime routine?

   • Bath with changing nappy and putting on pijamas.

   • Feed (drops, breastfeed one side, burp, breastfeed other side, burp)

   • Hold upright for 10 minutes

   • Give reflux syrup and pacifier

   • Hold upright for another 15–20 minutes (where she falls asleep)

   • Then wake her to change nappy, put on pyjamas – I don’t change her nappy after I feed her since I noticed it makes her reflux worse. I put on the pjs after her bath.

   • Move to bedroom, darken the room, turn on white noise – minus move to bedroom, it all happens in the same room, except the bath, obviously.

   • Rock her while singing

   • Swaddle

   • Rock to sleep

   • Then transfer to crib asleep

6. Do you have a routine for naps in the carrier? – I don’t, I didn’t even think of that up until now.

7. You mentioned catnapping – could you share how many naps Emilia is having each day and roughly when they happen? – sure. Frankly, it seems very random to me, some days have more, some have less. Basically, most naps of the day are catnaps, I think. Let me just give you the last 3 days:
   Saturday:
   Last sleep of the night: 04:50 – 08:14
   09:35 – 10:38 – fell asleep in my arms and I transferred her to bed
   11:51 – 12:31 – nap in carrier
   12:50 – 13:38 – nap in carrier (same one, just had a wake window)
   15:20 – 16:03 – nap in carrier
   18:08 – 18:44 – and then 18:48 – 19:03 and then 19:11 – 20:31 – nap in carrier with some wake windows.
   21:35 – started the sleeps of the night

   Sunday:
   Last sleep of the night 04:42 – 08:33
   09:31 – 11:15 – fell asleep in my arms and I transferred her to bed
   12:23 – 14:44 – carrier sleep, after big cry after feed
   15:52 – 16:07 + 16:30 – 18:08 – carrier sleep, after big cry after feed
   20:44 – 20:54 – fell asleep at the boob, which normally she never does, she is very agitated when suckling
   21:16 – started the sleeps for the night

   Monday:
   Last sleep of the night: 07:16 – 09:36
   11:44 – 12:34 – carrier sleep
   13:13 – 13:57 – carrier sleep
   15:25 – 15:59 – managed to fall asleep in the stroller
   16:12 – 18:27 – had to move her to the carrier as she started crying in the stroller
   20:50 – started the night sleep.

   I have a journal of sorts for the last 3 days with details regarding her sleep, if you feel you ned them. I wrote them in case you might need them, but also to find patterns in the reflux.

8. What time does she usually fall asleep for the night? – at around 9 pm more or less.

9. When she naps in the carrier, do you need to keep walking the whole time to keep her asleep? not necessarily, but I tend to anyway. I live next to lots of parks and the river and I would rather have her in fresh air than in the house, especially on good weather like we had.

10. Are you needing to reinsert her pacifier frequently overnight – or does she usually stay asleep even when it pops out (I am thinking more about that first long stretch of sleep at the beginning of the night)? – both. Towards the end of the sleep she gets agitated and that’s when reinserting the pacifier calms her down and will wake up if at some point it is not reinserted. Otherwise, as she falls asleep and drops it, she sometimes even refuses it in her sleep.

Regarding your question about white noise:
A YouTube video of rain sounds is fine to use – just check that it’s a consistent sound without sudden thunder or changes in volume. Also:

• Turn the phone screen off or face it down so it doesn’t light up the room

• Keep volume under 50 dB and place the phone away from her sleep space.

• I just checked, it’s 30 to 35 dB max and I have YT premium, so I can turn the screen off 🙂

Let me know if you need any more details.
I have another appointment today with a pediatric gastroenterologist, we’ll see how that goes.
Thanks for all your help!

• This reply was modified 10 months, 3 weeks ago by  Livia Csapo.

[Livia Csapo]

Not too many wrote here. A pity.

My name is Livia, I am Romanian and the mother of 2.5 month old Emilia. I am looking forward to working towards improving her sleep and also connecting with other parents in this community.

I am very new here, I just joined yesterday, I am still figuring out this forum. 😅

[Livia Csapo]

Hi Emma, I have some updates, good and bad.

We are going through a very tough nursing strike. Tough mostly for me, I think, it drains me mentally. It’s caused by strong (unpleasant for her) milk flow + getting distracted easily, even in a dark, quiet room. So we are scrambling at every possibility of her nursing, to make sure she is not dehydrated. This means sleep has been a bit affected, mostly the training part, as there are again moments of either screaming lungs out or instant sleep, and very little in between.
Putting her to sleep in the evening seems the easiest, and I think she would actually sleep through the whole night if it weren’t for a stuffed nose that gives her trouble and wakes her up, especially since now we are at one arm out of the swaddle, and sometimes the other one escapes as well. Rubbing at her face when her nose is stuffed seems to be the nemesis of sleep 😀 . But I’d say we are heading in the right direction, and soon I will let her have both hands out.
The pacifier stays until we are done with the nursing strike, right now it’s vital in our different ways of making her nurse.

It seems the pacifier is more of a problem especially during day naps. In the evening, she tends to spit it out 5 to 10 minutes after falling asleep and that’s done. During day naps, she seems… more desperate for it, and she will cry and wake up when she loses it. I found that interesting and it may be because of sleep pressure and the type of sleep during the night vs during the day?

Btw, in the past 5 days she fell asleep 5 to 10 minutes before 8 pm local time, so she seems to have chosen her time to go to bed. Initially I wanted to have it sooner, but somehow that seemed to be the time she would fall asleep the easiest.

Ah, our visit gets longer, it will be until mid-July, so for now everything happens one hour earlier than at the other home.

I hope to have better news in the next weeks.

Thank you!
Edit: Oh I have a question: her naps are still pretty random, but I noticed it’s often along the lines of one hour and a half awake, nap of 30, 45 to 1h long, a shorter time awake, maybe 30 minutes, 45, and usually fussier and then another nap, sometimes a bit shorter. I realize that normally these 2 naps should actually be one longer nap? When she wakes up, should I try to let her fall back asleep or just embrace the shorter naps for now? From what I have seen for now, letting her stay longer in her crib means she will start crying at some point, I have never seen her fall back asleep until now.

Edit no 2: There is one new behaviour happening and I need your take on it. I suppose it is because of the nursing strike, but not 100% sure. It just happened now and it also did last night. The last feed before bed is now the worst, with barely 2-3 minutes of nursing, split into 3-4 second bits. About 3 hours after falling asleep, she starts squirming and rubbing at her face a lot (my first guess was a stuffed nose). Then is turns into flailing all available limbs and quietly crying in her sleep. At that point I thought it was her tummy (maybe it was), as she seemed in pain. I took her in my arms trying to calm her and decided to try to nurse her. She took it immediately and nursed a total of almost 20 minutes (this is a huge amount for her). Mind you, all of this is happening in her sleep, she never woke up, or at least it didn’t seem that way.

After putting her back in her crib, every couple of minutes she starts rubbing at her face and flailing arms and getting agitated. I need to hold her free arm with my hand and she calms down, otherwise she escalates to crying in her sleep – and I don’t let her wake up, so I am more or less up all night doing this. She sleeps through the night like this, of course… but I don’t.

Something similar went down yesterday night as well, and I don’t think she is getting a good rest, since her first nap was really long, almost 3 hours, and fell beck asleep into it less than one hour after waking up in the morning.

I am now seriously considering swaddling her completely just so we both get a better night’s sleep.

I don’t want to sabotage the process of moving towards free arms, but this feels like a big setback in sleep behaviour.

Please let me know your thoughts on the matter.

Thank you!

• This reply was modified 9 months, 3 weeks ago by  Livia Csapo. Reason: added a question
• This reply was modified 9 months, 3 weeks ago by  Livia Csapo.

[Livia Csapo]

Thank you for the warm welcome, Emma! Where can I share the challenges I am facing with Emilia? Should I create a new thread? We are facing reflux that is interfering with sleep over here 🫠.

As I was saying, I am still figuring this forum out. Being a millennial, forums on phones are a strange concept to me, lol.