Jacelyn Tan
Forum Replies Created
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Dear Emma
We have since settled our 7 month old son at the Level 2 bedroom. He has also transited to 2 nap schedule a few days ago. His nap schedule references the New Parents Guide to Naps.
7am wake
9/9.30am nap 1 (1hr)
10/10.30am wake (3hr)
1/1.30pm nap 2 (1.5-2hr)
2.30/3pm wake (4hr)
6.30/6.45pm nighttime change
7/7.15pm sleep
We would usually give him his last feed at around 5.30pm or 6.30pm after nighttime change if he can last that long without milk.
Our son has since been sleeping on his side or his stomach. We would still pop the pacifier to settle him to sleep.
We notice however he would now have more frequent wakings between 7pm-11pm (about 3-4 times). There are times he will wake and place his arms on tummy time position, and call out or cry. We will then proceed to pat his bum bum and sometimes it helps to settle him to sleep, sometimes he would flip on his back and present to be awake. We will only proceed with a milk feed when it is a 2nd waking and his eyes are open, not sleepy. Following which we will sit down and pat him for 10min or more if necessary, before putting him in the cot.
His night feedings would usually be around 11pm and 3am. There has been times he had a midnight feed only and could last through the night. He would usually wake another time around 5-6am, before he is carried and put back into the cot before he next wakes around 7-7.30am. We noticed if we gave a feed around 5 or 6am, he would usually sleep past his wake time at around 8am, hence we have refrained from giving him a 3rd feed at 5 or 6am.
We are curious what could have contributed to his frequent waking between 7-11pm, especially when you mentioned before that is when his sleep pressure is at its highest. This is a contrast from the past when he would wake almost hourly from 3-7am when he was settled at Level 3. What can we do to help him sleep better?
As mentioned above, we find that we still have to carry him to sleep before putting him in the cot. Sometimes he will immediately cry when we put him in the cot. We are really grateful for advice on how to weane him off carrying to sleep. It seems quite impossible.
Finally, there are times when he is very tired and can fall asleep in the car seat during car journeys home. Other times he is fully awake. We made sure that the car seat is comfortable and of a good reputable brand. The height and length of the car seat is also optimised so that he is not squashed into the seat. We would be grateful for your advice on how to help him rest and sleep better in the car. That wld really help us plan our journey better to ensure we dont over tire him during outings.
We note that our subscription ends tomorrow and I am sure it affects our ability to view your reply. Could we request a goodwill extension of the subscription for a few days so that we can have a closure to this conversation. Much appreciated!
Warm regards
Jacelyn
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Dear Emma,
Thanks for your inputs – we have tried extending his wake windows by 15 minutes and keeping our attempts to settle him in the cot for 20 minutes. We will try settling him awake directly in the cot for bedtimes for a few nights and see how it goes.
So far his sleep has improved to some extent. We have been successful at times patting him back to sleep when he wakes using the pyramid method of patting and shushing, then shushing. He would wake usually around 12am and 3am for feeds (sometimes we are able to settle him at 3am without feed). However the hourly wakings at 3, 4, 5, 6am have persisted.
We wanted to check in on the following:
1. Shorter nap times
There was one night when baby slept for from 7pm to 12am without stirring. The nap time (unintentionally short as it was) was 35min, 35min and 1 hour that day.
We did not want to go too extreme, hence we tried to limit his nap times to 1 hour for Naps 1 and 2, and 45min for Nap 3 but it has not yielded the same results as that day.
We wonder if this could mean our baby could really deal better with shorter nap times in the day so that he can have longer stretches of sleep in the night. For your advice please.
2. Changing of cot at night
We have actually been settling our baby to sleep in Cot A at Level 2 of our house from 7pm- 12am (in the same room as my helper), and would bring him up to Cot B at Level 3 of our house to sleep for the rest of the night (in the same room as my husband and I). During the transfers, we will carry and pat him to sleep for 20minutes in Level 2 before bringing him upstairs, as we noticed if we bring him up awake he tends to be more active possibly due to exposure to white light at the staircase corridors.
We noticed baby would wake up more frequently when he is brought to Level 3. When he wakes he would sometimes be scanning around the room when we try to settle him back to sleep. Other conditions in the room are similar: 23 degrees aircon temperature (Level 3 room is a bigger space), dim lighting (it is darker in Level 2), air purifier switched on as white noise. Due to the frequent wakings at Level 3, we have tried to settle him to sleep longer in the Level 2 room and bringing him up at 3-4am instead so that he can have better sleep.
Would you be able to advise on this – is he waking up more frequently because of the slight variable differences mentioned in both rooms, or because of difference in cot space (we have exposed him to playing a little in Level 3 cot when he wakes in the morning, whereas Level 2 cot is usually for settling him for naptimes and bedtime), sensitivity to the surroundings, or other factors?
3. Frequent wakings between 3-7am
Lastly do you have any thoughts about how we can improve his sleep between 3-7am. While we understand the mechanics of sleep pressure, it is most curious how he has been waking up every hour. This is especially so when he sleeps on his side as he will sometimes flip himself into tummy time position, wake momentarily and cry. There are times we can resettle him on his back or side by patting him in the cot, but there are also times when we will still need to carry him seated and he would settle to sleep quickly in our arms.
Much appreciated to hear your thoughts.
Warm regards
Jacelyn
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Dear Emma,
Thank you for the detailed recommendations aimed to tailor to our baby’s needs and adjustments to his current sleeping habits. We really appreciate it.
We have followed your advice to follow the nap and sleep schedule as closely as we could, and to have his start of the day beginning around 7.30am – 8am (within a 30min range). While it has allowed us to have a more predictable schedule around caregiving of baby, unfortunately we have not seen significant differences in his sleep quality.
We have tried a few variations of settling methods and we intend to do the following. This is following ur principles of working twds settling him in the cot and reduced active support from caregivers over time:
We managed to settle baby in bedroom with a little dim light and he cld be settled. We proceeded to carry him and hum lullaby, after lullaby we sat down and pat him for 10min while carried in our arms, and pat him another 10min while placing him in the cot. This seems to have worked well in pacing with our child towards more regulated and calm sleep. We intend to slowly transition twds this for following nap and bedtimes:
– 5min patting in our arms and 15min patting in the cot
– 20min patting in the cot
– Progressively reduce patting time in the cot
We thought to share with you other variations we tried and didn’t seem to work well for baby. We thought to share these attempts with you and hear your thoughts if we cld have done anything differently.
We tried carrying him in our arms, hum lullaby and put him in the cot once lullaby is finished. He was showing some tired cues (rubbing ears and eyes), but would fidget, look around, try to reach for things and play with his pacifier or our hands. We tried to pat him on the chest while holding his body still, shushing, and rocking side by side when it didn’t seem to progress towards sleep. We also tried rubbing his head as it seems to help him relax and feel comfortable. He was relatively calm and not crying during these attempts.
In the next steps we tried:
Scenario A (Naptime)
– We reduced our involvement (climbing down the pyramid) by just shushing when he seemed a little more still, but he started moving in the cot actively again.
– When this seemed to be going nowhere after a long time of patting and shushing, we eventually carried him in our arms where he would cry, drift to become 80-90% sleepy in our arms, and when we put him in the cot drowsy but awake, he would cry.
– The crying intensifies with each attempt so we stopped by the 3rd attempt.
Scenario B (Bedtime)
– There was one attempt which took about 50min from 6.45pm – 7.30pm where he eventually fell asleep in the cot. Similarly, after a long time of patting and shushing, we eventually carried him in our arms twice and he drifted to become 80-90% sleepy in our arms. Eventually he drifted to sleep in the cot. He was generally calm throughout.
– However after 10-20min, he woke looking at his surrounding and started wailing. We then tried to resettle him the same way but with each attempt he would wail whenever we tried to put him in the cot asleep. This dragged on from 8-9.30pm.
Questions:
– When baby cannot be settled after several attempts, could it lead to him becoming overtired? Should we limit our attempts to a certain timing?
– Could any of these lead to baby becoming more anxious and difficult to be settled to sleep during bedtime?
– Should baby be settled drowsy but awake or awake? It seems drowsy but awake doesnt seem to work as baby would wake prematurely and cry. When child is settled awake there is a different set of issue where he would be fidgety and eventually seems overtired from our attempts.
Regarding the use of pacifier, we generally pop pacifier in his mouth when settling him to sleep with a lullaby. We note the recommendations in your videos to work towards not using pacifier or taking it out before baby drifts to sleep, which we will try to attempt after we have stabilised settling him to sleep in the cot first.
Thank you and hope to hear from you soon.
Warm regards
Jacelyn
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Dear Emma
Here are my replies:
1. What time does he typically wake in the morning? Does this stay consistent within about 30 minutes each day?
No it is not consistent within 30 minutes, but within an hour range. He would wake usually between 7am – 8am. Very rarely he would wake earlier at 6.30am or later at 8.30am.
2. You mentioned he generally has 3 naps a day—could you share roughly what times these naps typically occur?
These are some of the recent nap time log.
Nap 1: 9:30 am – 10:50 am (in between he wake up 2 times),
Nap 2: 1:10 pm – 2:00 pm (in between he wake up 2 times)
Nap 3: 3:30 pm – 4: 35 pm (in between he wake up 2 times)
Nap 1: 10:00 am – 10:50 am
Nap 2 : 1:00 pm – 2:00 pm (in between he wake 1 time)
Nap 3 : 4:05 pm – 4:50 pm
This is a rare outlier log.
Nap 1: 11:15 am – 1:10 pm (in between he wake up 2 times)
Nap 2 : 2:50 pm – 3:40 pm
Nap 1: 10:30 am – 11: 15 am (in between he wake up 1 time)
Nap 2: 1:20 pm – 2:25 pm (in between he wake up 1 time)
Nap 3: 4:20 pm – 5:25 pm
3. Does he use a pacifier at all for sleep?
Yes he does. He will spit the pacifier out when he is sound asleep.
4. You mentioned you give him 140ml of breastmilk per feed, and you’re not sure if he should be having more. Do you know if he is following his weight curve? So tracking well in regards to weight gain?
Yes he is following his weight curve well. He was in the 75th percentile in 1st and 2nd month, and and was in the 90th percentile in the 4th month.
I am wondering if we should maintain the existing 6-7 feeds per day or if it is alright to have fewer nighttime feeds and encourage him to be settled to sleep without milk (i.e. total of 5 feeds of 150ml per day and to drop number of night feeds from 2 to 1). We were advised by a lactation consultant and national guidelines to follow this formula to ascertain the total volume of feed required: (120ml x weight by kg / no of feeds per day). Giving 5 feeds of 150ml per feed would be lesser than recommended according to the formula. We would like to ensure his daily nutritional intake is not limited while ensuring he has less disrupted sleep.
Would you be able to advise if increasing day time feeding volume would indeed contribute to less night time wakings? I am unsure if the night time wakings are for milk as he does not usually wake crying for milk at night
Previously, we changed night time feeds (after 9pm) to fully formula feeds because we understand formula milk is harder to digest than breastmilk. The thinking was to reduce him waking up at night to feed. This unfortunately didnt work as he still woke up quite frequently at night. We then reverted to giving him breastmilk at night (and to top up with formula milk) as we understand there is melatonin in the breast milk at night.
Last night we experienced this:
– wake at 11pm (usually he wakes around this timing and we give feeding), wake at 2am and 3am (could be settled back to sleep by carrying), wake at 4.30am (we proceeded to give feeding as he had awoken multiple times, unsure if he could have been hungry). wake at 6am (usually he would have lighter sleep by this time, but could be settled back to sleep by carrying) wake at 7am (active, smiling and ready to play)
This is our nighttime feeding log from past few days. I included the first feed of the day but it does not reflect the wake up timing.
13 Jun: 7.45pm, 2.15am, 6.25am
14 Jun: 8.45pm, 2.55am, 7am
15 Jun: 10pm, 3.25am, 8.40am
16 Jun: 10.05pm, 4am, 8.55am
Hope the above information helps and we do look forward to hearing from you.
